We’re back with another episode of What’s the Schemata, the Schema Therapy podcast for therapists with ISST-accredited schema therapy supervisors and trainers Chris Hayes and Rob Brockman.
This time, we’re joined by Graham Kell — a rare “unicorn” in the schema world, accredited in schema therapy for both adults and child/adolescent practice. With two decades of youth work behind him, plus lived experience parenting teens, Graham brings a grounded and practical perspective on how schema therapy for teenagers actually works in the room.
If you’ve ever sat across from a teenager in a hoodie, eyes down, giving you very little, this episode will feel familiar.
What This Episode Teaches About Schema Therapy for Teenagers
In this candid and practical conversation, Graham unpacks why teen silence is rarely rudeness. More often, it’s vulnerability without language. In schema therapy for teenagers, the Detached Protector can look like disengagement, but underneath it is usually a young person trying to stay safe. Rather than confronting that head-on, Graham explains how to build safety first and how giving teens vocabulary for their internal states can slowly make the silence less necessary.
He shares how he uses “side doors” into emotion through characters, memes, anime, books, music and pop culture. Instead of pushing for direct emotional disclosure, he invites teens to talk about a character first. This approach makes schema therapy for teenagers feel less exposing and more collaborative. It creates distance, lowers shame, and often opens the path to deeper work.
The conversation also explores how to begin cognitively when needed and then gently shift into experiential work. The Detached Protector may tolerate logic before it tolerates closeness, and that sequencing matters. The model remains intact, but the delivery shifts. In effective schema therapy for teenagers, schemas might become “instincts” or “predictions”, modes might become a cast of characters, and parts work becomes story work. The formulation is still there, but the language feels developmentally aligned.
Graham also speaks about the strengths-based nature of schema therapy for teenagers. Because schemas are still forming, there is a powerful opportunity to build pride in strengths early. When teens begin to see themselves as capable, the pull of unhealthy coping can weaken. It is less about removing protection and more about expanding the range of options available to them.
Parent coaching is another key theme. When safe and appropriate, working with caregivers becomes central to change. In schema therapy for teenagers, helping parents respond to the mode rather than react to the moment can significantly reduce conflict at home. Graham introduces a simple CALM framework focused on curiosity, allowing feelings, limiting chaos and modelling regulation. Even small shifts in how a parent mirrors their teen can reshape how that teen sees themselves.
The episode also addresses what happens when parents are not a resource. In those cases, schema therapy for teenagers shifts towards strengthening the adolescent’s coping capacity and autonomy. Rather than lowering the teen’s perception of the problem, the work often involves raising their confidence in their ability to manage it.
Empathic confrontation with teens is handled carefully. Validation tends to run longer before confrontation is introduced. Metaphor often does the heavy lifting, whether that’s castle walls and drawbridges or animal instincts. Across the discussion, Graham makes clear that schema therapy for teenagers is not about correcting attitude, but understanding function.
Throughout the episode, one message stands out: work with teen modes, not teen attitude. When we understand the purpose behind the behaviour, engagement becomes more possible and the work becomes more humane.
Listen to the Podcast
The full episode, Introducing Graham Kell on Schema Therapy for Teenagers, is available now on What’s the Schemata.
Listen on your preferred podcast platform and explore how schema therapy can be thoughtfully and creatively adapted for adolescents.
We’re back with another episode of What’s the Schemata, the Schema Therapy podcast for therapists with ISST-accredited schema therapy supervisors and trainers Chris Hayes and Rob Brockman.
This time, we’re joined by Graham Kell — a rare “unicorn” in the schema world, accredited in schema therapy for both adults and child/adolescent practice. Graham brings two decades of youth work experience, the lived reality of parenting teens, and a grounded, practical understanding of what actually works in the room with adolescents.
If you’ve ever sat across from a teenager in a hoodie, eyes down, giving you very little, this episode will feel familiar.
What you’ll hear in this episode
In this candid and practical conversation, Graham unpacks why teen silence is rarely rudeness. More often, it’s vulnerability without language. The Detached Protector might look like disengagement, but underneath it is usually a young person trying to stay safe. Rather than confronting that head-on, Graham explains how to build safety first and how giving teens vocabulary for their internal states can slowly make the silence less necessary.
He shares how he uses “side doors” into emotion through characters, memes, anime, books, music and pop culture. Instead of pushing for direct emotional disclosure, he invites teens to talk about a character first. It creates distance, lowers shame, and often opens the path to deeper work.
The conversation also explores how to begin cognitively when needed and then gently shift into experiential work. The Detached Protector may tolerate logic before it tolerates closeness, and that sequencing matters. The model doesn’t change, but the delivery does. Schemas might become “instincts” or “predictions”, modes might become a cast of characters, and parts work becomes story work. The formulation remains intact, but the language becomes youth-friendly.
Graham speaks about the strengths-based nature of adolescent schema therapy. Because schemas are still forming, there’s a powerful opportunity to build pride in strengths early. When teens begin to see themselves as capable, the pull of unhealthy coping can weaken. It’s less about ripping away protection and more about expanding the range of options available to them.
Parent coaching is another key theme. When safe and appropriate, working with caregivers becomes a central part of change. Graham describes helping parents respond to the mode rather than react to the moment. He introduces a simple CALM framework focused on curiosity, allowing feelings, limiting chaos and modelling regulation. Even small shifts in how a parent mirrors their teen can reshape how that teen sees themselves.
The episode also doesn’t shy away from the complexity of when parents aren’t a resource. In those cases, the focus turns to strengthening the adolescent’s coping capacity and autonomy. Rather than lowering the teen’s perception of the problem, the work often involves raising their confidence in their ability to manage it.
Empathic confrontation with teens is handled carefully. Validation tends to run longer before confrontation is introduced. Metaphor often does the heavy lifting, whether that’s castle walls and drawbridges or animal instincts. The aim is not to shame or corner the protector but to invite it to lower the drawbridge just enough.
Throughout the conversation, one theme stands out: work with teen modes, not teen attitude. When we understand the function of the behaviour, engagement becomes more possible and the work becomes more humane.
What’s the Schemata: Episode 61 with Graham Kell
The full episode, Introducing Graham Kell and Schema Therapy for Adolescents, is available now on What’s the Schemata.
Listen to the episode on your preferred podcast platform and explore how schema therapy can be thoughtfully and creatively adapted for adolescents.
